儿子们在上小学, 在考虑要不要上私立学校 .其实所在学区也不差, 所以比较犹豫. 有哪位送孩子上过两种学校的经验? 请说说它们各自的长短处. 什么样的孩子在私立学校受益更多. 我自己感觉中学, 特别是高中, 应该上私立学校, 小学倒不非得上. 各位教育家们怎么看?

谢啦.

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There are various factors that affect parents' decision to send their kids to a private school or to a public school. One primary reason is religion. If you are a Christian, and you would like to raise your kids to be Christians, then you may want to send your kids to a Christian school. On the other hand, if you are an Orthodox, you may be reluctant to send your kids to a non-Orthodox religious school, and you may actually prefer a public school. Many private schools don't really make religion an issue with non-believers. So, your kids should have no problem even if they are non-believers.

The second factor is the quality of the school. Depending on where you are, there might be a difference in the quality of education between a public school and a private school. If you happen to live in an area where public schools are poorly run, you may want to send your kids to private schools. Otherwise, there would be no need.

The third factor is the affordability. Granted you can afford it, this should be the last and least consideration if you believe your kids should go to a private school for religious reason or for better education. By the way, not all private schools (especially elementary schools) are expensive.

One minor factor is convenience. Public schools typically provide bus service through your neighborhood, whereas private schools leave it to parents to drive their kids to school. For working parents, this may present a real challenge.

It seems that you do not believe there is any difference in the quality of education between the private school and public school in your area, and you have not cited any religious reasons, so there is no need to send your kids to a private school.

Some elite private high schools have very good enrollment track record with Ivy Colleges. You can let your kids wait till 9th grade to get into one of those private schools, if you want to increase the odds of your kids getting into, say, Harvard or Yale.

Now, you can put these two cents of mine into your kids' college education fund.

nicely said, yedite.

do you have personal experience? Kids were sent to prep school? how do you like it?

ccz

Boarding schools may offer a good solution for those parents. Most of kids (if not all) have much more fun in prep boarding schools.

yedite 写道:
One minor factor is convenience. Public schools typically provide bus service through your neighborhood, whereas private schools leave it to parents to drive their kids to school. For working parents, this may present a real challenge.

Anyone has concern/experience of diluted closeness with kids attending boarding schools?

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Living with kids day and night does not guarantee the closeness. Boarding schools usually have long weekends every 4 weeks so kids can come home for a break. Even kids are not at home, there are so may ways to get connected with them (IM, email, phone ...) . Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

桥手老二 写道:
Anyone has concern/experience of diluted closeness with kids attending boarding schools?

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Not necessarily. In my area, the public school bus kids go to private schools as long as the distance from the school is less than certain miles from the school district you live in. Check with your school district to get that information.

Also, not all private schools are religious.

我觉得孩子们要是在好学区的公校里是最好的学生之一，那就不必上私校。那样的学生也能进名校，这网友中已有多个例子了。至于是否非要进哈佛耶鲁不可，CND上讨论过多次了。公校的一个特点是各种活动和事件都和社区紧密地联系在一起，这对孩子成长十分重要。另外我想现在孩子尚在小学的家长容易和自己国内上过的小学比较而认为这里的学校教的太慢。这个问题大家可以讨论。也曾碰到过少数家长，他们送孩子去私校的目的是让孩子沾些贵族气息或是可以声称孩子和Bush是校友什么的。这种动机大家大概没兴趣讨论。

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I heard it is better to send kid to the private elementary school for these reasons you mentioned. I was told it would be better to build the kid's character in the elementary school. It does not matter in middle school. High school is as important as elementary school.

由 桥手老二 于 04-07-20 13:26

也曾碰到过少数家长，他们送孩子去私校的目的是让孩子沾些贵族气息或是可以声称孩子和Bush是校友什么的。这种动机大家大概没兴趣讨论。

They are asking schools to build kids' character, rather than themselves. It is a choice. Personally, I don't think it's a best choice. I think parents, not the society or schools, should have the primary responsiblity to build kids' character.

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I found myself agree with you this time!

I believe that parents have the most impact on kids' character no matter what school they send their kids to.

I believe in quite the opposite. Unless you are super rich why do you want your kids to go to school with super rich kids? Would that make your kids feel inferior? How does that help the kid develope character? I am curious if anyone thought about this. My friends have similar concerns.

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Do anyone believe being super rich = good character? I tend to think a school dictrict with diversified social economic mix is better for kids' development than an area of uniform income and background.

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You don't need to be super rich to send kids to private school. Super rich is not some disadvantage either. We also don’t need to move out from good school district to get more diversified social economic mix. The best private schools are always trying to attract talent kids from different income families. They may do it better than some good school district. Most parents sending their kids to private schools are more concern about kids’ education, on religion or academic side, than average parents.

About influence from school and from parents, both of them are critical. Kids need to grow out from their parents’ limitation at some point, just like what we did during our growing up. School helps them to achieve it.

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曾经来过这里

here is a link as ref:

http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/

Just briefly looked the website. In addition to many ups, one thing surprised me is that average SAT scores from graduating class of those best private schools are at mid 1300. I thought they have best faculty, recruit only brightest students and spend the longest time studying.

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hobo and 桥手老二,

I agree with both of you in general. Agree with 桥手老二 about diversity in school which will help the kid develope better skills to work with people from different backgrounds, which will be very helpful in later life.

Also agree with hobo if going to private school where quality of education is much better in private schools. However, if good public schools are around then I won't do it. BTW, private schools have a very different price range. For elementary schools, I know people send their kids to schools where tuition runs from 5k to over 20k. I was talking about those over 20k. Going to those under 10k is quite normal and you still mix with people from more average background. Of course, if 20k is chump change for you then by all means go for it.

ccz: Yes, I have some personal experience, and I like it.

愚夫: Boarding schools would be too drastic for many parents. I don’t think people do it simply because they want to avoid the daily hassle of driving kids to school. There are other driving factors. This warrants a separate discussion.

克隆甲: If you are concerned about your prodigies getting bored in a public school, you should check out the programs for “gifted & talented” students. Most public schools have such programs, though under various names. It’s a great way to keep your kids academically challenged in school.

FengHua: You are right, school bus service varies from place to place. In some places, there is no bus stop within half a mile radius of the school.

桥手老二: I agree with you, parents should have the primary responsibility to build a kid’s character. However, private schools tend to do a better job (than public schools) in helping kids build up their characters.

Kids care their grades and sports most. To be cool you have to be academically or atheletically talented. Kids with rich parents are not necessary superior or cool.

BTW, a great school definitely helps kids develop their charatacters and personal pride.

tc 写道:
I believe in quite the opposite. Unless you are super rich why do you want your kids to go to school with super rich kids? Would that make your kids feel inferior? How does that help the kid develope character? I am curious if anyone thought about this. My friends have similar concerns.

It may be different for girls to be cool in school.

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In a competitive school, most kids are very motivated (otherwise, they may not want to get into such a school. American kids are barely forced to get into a school of parent's choice). It is difficult to be cool if he/she is not talented. In what context, the coolness is different between girls and boys?

桥手老二 写道:
It may be different for girls to be cool in school.

愚夫 写道:
Kids care their grades and sports most. To be cool you have to be academically or atheletically talented. Kids with rich parents are not necessary superior or cool.

Boys are cool as star athletes and girls may not. Kids may not think a girl is cool because she is a star athlete. Girls could be considered cool for their fashion, theatrical performing, etc, in addition to other talents. I never saw a girl was voted as homecoming queen only becaus she's an athletic star .

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I have been checking private schools locally. There are certainly diffferent types of private schools. Mostly there are religious schools and independent schools. The regligious schools tends to be quite affordable, like one of my child's classmate is going to a cathlic school next year , and it is cheaper than our current daycare. The independent schools tends to be costing > 13 K for 9 months of school a year.

The populations of each independent schools can also be quite different. I'm sending my child to a Montessori school next year. The Montessori school seems to have a very broad social economical composition. Like having a lot of enginneers, visiting scholars, post Doc, along with some richer people. But I do hear there are other schools who actually ask the parents "which company's board are you serving" in the application form.

BTW, has anybody read "the Nanny Diary" ? In that book, it showes how some if not most of the super rich kids are brought up in Manhattan. I heard from a friend that the "elite" private schools over there do tends to have these overly rich kids.

H

_________________
"Happiness is not a matter of good fortune or worldly possessions.
It's a mental attitude. It comes from appreciating what we have,
instead of being miserable about what we don't have."
– Anonymous

Well, we talking about kids in competitive schools. The same is true for either girls or boys. Kids may not be interested in popularity contest in a highly competitive school and cann't be cool if they struggle academically. Kids in such schools are under constant pressure and always try to keep up hectic schedules. That may be how schools help very high percent of them (some schools > 30%) get into Ivy

桥手老二 写道:
Boys are cool as athelets as you mentioned and girls may not. Kids may not think a girl is cool because she is a star athelet. Girls could be considered cool for their fashion, theatrical performing, etc, in addition to other talents. I never saw a girl was voted as homecoming queen only becaus she's a star athelet.

That is true. That is one of important factors that these schools have been elite for hundred years. These schools have huge endowment(some of them have > $ 500M !). With such big endowments, schools can afford to build impressive facilities, hire talented teachers, and maintain high faculty/student ratio. However, these schools still can not buy addmission tickets to elite colleges for their students. These schools always recruite talented kids so that they can continue to be elite.

xiaohong 写道:
BTW, has anybody read "the Nanny Diary" ? In that book, it showes how some if not most of the super rich kids are brought up in Manhattan. I heard from a friend that the "elite" private schools over there do tends to have these overly rich kids.

Below is the top 20 private boarding schools ranked by average SAT I scores of graduating class. I am not impressed. Is anyone? We are in a school district ranked between 350th and 400th in the nation with VERBAL Mean = 548 and MATH Mean = 575.

1. Thomas Jefferson School Co-Ed 1370
2. St. Andrew's School, DE Co-Ed 1365
3. Phillips Exeter Academy Co-Ed 1361
4. Groton School Co-Ed 1360
5. Concord Academy Co-Ed 1350
6. The Webb Schools Co-Ed 1350
7. Phillips Academy Andover Co-Ed 1349
8. St. Paul's School Co-Ed 1345
9. Milton Academy Co-Ed 1340
10. Deerfield Academy Co-Ed 1335
11. Indian Springs School Co-Ed 1333
12. Choate Rosemary Hall Co-Ed 1332
13. Lawrenceville School Co-Ed 1328
14. Middlesex School Co-Ed 1320
15. Cate School Co-Ed 1300
16. Hotchkiss School Co-Ed 1300
17. St. Albans School All-Boys 1300
18. St. Anne's-Belfield School Co-Ed 1290
19. Thacher School Co-Ed 1290
20. Taft School Co-Ed 1289

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桥手老二,

That's very good info to know. I didn't pay attention to SAT scores before. I knew the public school for us is OK. Now that you mention this, I looked it up and the SAT scores for the public school in our area is average 567 verbal and 603 math.

_________________

This is why I am not convinced to spend 20+ K every year sending kids to those schools for academic excellence. They claim to have the best faculty, smallest student/teacher ratio, brightest students and longest studying time . I would expect the average score in mid 1400 with their fat price tag and what they claim.

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567 verbal and 603 math (Total 1170) are really good for publich school. VERBAL Mean = 548 and MATH Mean = 575 (Total 1123) are also very good. In my school district the total mean SAT score is only 1030 (verbal 518, Math 512).

From the high deviation of the verbal and math scores in both of your schools, I can be sure there are many Asians (Chinese, Indian) there.

由 tc 于 04-07-21 13:43

桥手老二,

That's very good info to know. I didn't pay attention to SAT scores before. I knew the public school for us is OK. Now that you mention this, I looked it up and the SAT scores for the public school in our area is average 567 verbal and 603 math.

引文:
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桥手老二 写道:
Below is the top 20 private boarding schools ranked by average SAT I scores of graduating class. I am not impressed. Is anyone? We are in a school district ranked between 350th and 400th in the nation with VERBAL Mean = 548 and MATH Mean = 575.

Not really. Only about 5% in my case.

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it is 30k+...

Thanks for the correction.

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One aims at raising the leaders for the working force, while the other concentrates on training members of the force. Money talks, and, moreover, rules!

here is a link not directly related to the discussion about school selection, but related to eduaction in general.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/?040726on_onlineonly01

I am not sure the exact percentage. It's higher than the rest of the country for sure. However, it's just average in our county. BTW, the highest ranked public school in our county, with extremely high percentage of Asians, has 615 verbal and 657 math. The competition there must be quite extreme. I don't think I even want my kids to go there.

_________________

Not impressed? How many kids in a great public high (say with > 400 graduates) can get into Ivy?

Two sociologists published a book-length study of these elite schools entitled: PREPARING FOR POWER: AMERICA'S ELITE BOARDING SCHOOLS. In the prologue to the book, the authors explained their motivation this way: "The story of how America’s most elite secondary schools train their students for academic success and social position is one should be told, in large part because it reveals the price of privilege and the inner sacrifices that children are expected on the road to power". Many aspects of the book may be outdated. But we can not dispute the fact that these schools graduate a disproportionate number of leaders (in business, government etc). It is also a fact that elite colleges admit about 50% of incoming students from these private schools while the population of private school students consists less than 10% of high school age kids.

Achieving high SAT is not the only goal of education in a private school. A talented kid can get into good college and be successful in later life whether she/he is in public or private school. But private school education can definitely stimulate the learning process and be helpful in career development since he/she is surrounded by peers of high caliber. IMO, it is plainly simple that most ppl would rather drive BMW than Toyota if money is not an issue.

Here are some aspects that the parents of most perspective students like about private schools:

*Private schools offer rich programs and rigorous preparation for college. In some schools, an average student may take at least 5 APs.

*Private schools emphasize tradition, thereby instilling a sense of pride in one's alma mater.

*Friendships and connections are formed that often last a lifetime and may lead to what is called "networking". In later life, as they shape their careers, friends from school are often in a position to be helpful.

*Financial aids are available. As a matter of fact, almost 35 – 40% students receive financial aids in these schools. So your price tag is not 30K+ but maybe 10k+ (depends on your income).

*And most importantly, a private school can expel a student who is disruptive to the education process or can not keep up academically.

桥手老二 写道:
Below is the top 20 private boarding schools ranked by average SAT I scores of graduating class. I am not impressed. Is anyone? We are in a school district ranked between 350th and 400th in the nation with VERBAL Mean = 548 and MATH Mean = 575.

Imagining a public school offers an education equal to that of the private one is simply a dream of the left, and it will remain as such. As long as there are classified job descriptions, there is distinctive training. Often, one sees a strange-looking phenomenon in which people react differently toward a task. One group takes the task as if they are facing another routine challenge. The other group, on the other hand, ends in the library (or the web ), spending a whole afternoon there.

愚夫,

I am not disputing the quality of private schools. I understand that some schools, such as Andover and Exeter, the two of the largest, produce 25-30% Ivy students from their graduating class every year. Rather, I expect they do better with their money, teachers and source of students. Sure, SAT is not their only goal and should be an easy one for them. Also, with the quality/price ratio of those schools, I expect them do much better. If the price tag is 10K as you said, my expectation changes. As I said in my earlier post, if your kids are top students in good public schools, or, if they are not comfortable with the high population of rich kids that is often found in those schools, they may just stay in schools around their home with the friends since kindergarten. It is not too later to form more friendship and connections in college.

I agree with you that a private school can expel a student who is disruptive to the education process or can not keep up academically. I guess most of us here are not in that senario. Am I too optimistic?

How do you think the boarding schools for K-8?

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Good public high schools can offer a lot. They have a lot more AP classes to choose from, much more than any small private school can offer. Students can also gain organization/leadership skills.

You can't really judge a school by its average SAT score. In large public schools, the classes have ranks. J, K, L, M. Also H (for honor) and AP (Advanced Placement, equivalent to some college course). You should check the average SAT scores for the H and AP kids. (May include the J class as well). If your kids can't make into the J class, it doesn't matter if he/she goes to public or private school. Schooling will not be their forte.

Yes, private school does more handholding. Usually, they have some connections with the Ivy League schools. But if you kids are good, it doesn’t matter if they attend public school. They will go where their abilities take them. If they have special needs, that is another story. Smaller classes and more handholding will help.

Another strong point for private school is that you might build some connections which might benefit you later in life.

As for elementary school, it really doesn't matter how good/bad the acadamic program of the school, as long as it is safe and friendly.

Just my 2 cents

桥手老二,

The problem is how to determine the performance/expense ratio in education. The public schools in our area spend about 5 to 8k per kid annually, while those private schools spend almost 10 times that much per kid. The tuition imcome of those schools only covers about 50% of the cost to educate a kid. The rest is from their endowment( you already make a good deal if you get into these schools). If they perform what you expect, it may be unfortunate for public school students since it will become more difficult for them to get into elite colleges.

The investment in education is like buying a piece of dimaond. A diamond of grade VS (very slightly imperfect) may be good enough. But if you want to show your passion and buy a diamond of grade VVS (very very slightly imperfect), you will have to pay load more. But again, you cann't tell much difference between VS and VVS.

K-8 boarding may be different. IMO, kids are a little too young to govern themselves. It is not unusall though that parents want their kids to be more mature in high school and put them in K-8 boarding for another year(stay back, not because these kids are not talented) . American parents, unlike most of asian parents, do not push their kids very hard to become prodigies.


桥手老二 写道:
愚夫,

I am not disputing the quality of private schools. I understand that some schools, such as Andover and Exeter, the two of the largest, produce 25-30% Ivy students from their graduating class every year. Rather, I expect they do better with their money, teachers and source of students. Sure, SAT is not their only goal and should be an easy one for them. Also, with the quality/price ratio of those schools, I expect them do much better. If the price tag is 10K as you said, my expectation changes. As I said in my earlier post, if your kids are top students in good public schools, or, if they are not comfortable with the high population of rich kids that is often found in those schools, they may just stay in schools around their home with the friends since kindergarten. It is not too later to form more friendship and connections in college.

I agree with you that a private school can expel a student who is disruptive to the education process or can not keep up academically. I guess most of us here are not in that senario. Am I too optimistic?

How do you think the boarding schools for K-8?

桥手老二
I do believe that little kids should stay with their parents, instead of in boarding schools. You are the one knows your kids the best and you certainly want to be involved in their growing up process.
If you want your kids have some experience of away from home, you can try different summer camps (over night camps, from 2-8 weeks).

Your points are well taken.

Most of the Asian kids are not even close to prodigies. They are often called as over-achievers. Their achievements are from over-working. Hard-working is fine. To me, a prodigy is a person with exceptional talents. Talents are God's gift. People can't learn to be gifted. People can learn to be smart. Most of kids have to work hard because they are not talents. To push kids very hard to become prodigies is in vain simply because they are not.

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Thanks for the advice, and I fully agree with you. I am through this already. I am just curious about views of others.

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My daughter is going to high school next fall. She selected to go to IB program in a high school. The school is not our home school and it is not graded as good as my home school also. But it is the only one who has the IB in my school district. Anybody has the experience of IB? Thanks.

I don't know the reason your daughter choose IB. For IB and AP, colleges do not seem to be in favor one or another.

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女儿今年高中毕业，在她即将进入大学前夕，我们问她：“中学没有上私立学校是否后悔？”她不加思索地回答说“No!"

我们住区的公立学校并不算很出色，当孩子该进高中时，我们听了其他朋友的劝说，让她参加了私立学校入学考试SSAT。她并不情愿去考，又是最后一分钟才报名，因此根本没准备就上阵，却考得很不错，可以进一流私校并申请到优秀学生奖学金的。但女儿却不肯填私立学校报名表，因为不愿意离开已熟悉的住区同学，我们也就没勉强她。即省钱，又能与孩子多相处几年，何乐而不为？

女儿就这样一直在这不起眼的公立学校读到高中毕业，而且成绩在全年级还不是数一数二，今年照样如愿以偿进了她最中意的常春藤大学。家长们之所以花钱送孩子上私立学校，不也就是想为进好大学铺路吗？既然轻轻松松达到了此目的，女儿的“不后悔”确实答的理直气壮。孩子还表示，在这普通学校里读书不累，除了有时考试前紧张点，大多时间挺轻松，因此有精力参与课外活动与社会服务等。“轻松愉快指数高”，大概是她不后悔的另一原因。

也有不少例子，私立名校甚至优秀公立高中的毕业生反而进不了好大学，因为这些中学的优秀生太多，而顶尖大学在每所中学录取的人数有限，倒使一些也很优秀的学生错失了进名校之机会（这点美国与中国不同，中国是仅靠考分定音，好中学出高分学生，名大学录取率就高）。因此进私立学校和好学区公校并非将来进好大学的保险卡，你非得在这些好学校中出类拔萃才行。能达此水平的，要么是绝顶聪明的，要么是玩命用功的。所以先衡量自家孩子是否这样的材料。像俺家闺女，聪明却算不上绝顶，用功更谈不上玩命，在竞争太激烈的环境中没准受累还达不到效果，反而打击自信心。

不过，也有些孩子是自愿上私立学校，尤其乐意离家住宿。通常这些孩子是因家里管得太严或有其他原因。只要孩子自愿，在校知道努力学习，取得成绩，就也值得。

是否该上私立学校，家长最好别自作主张，而要征求孩子的意见。无论日后效果如何，只要是孩子自愿的选择，他们不后悔，就是家长最大的欣慰。

还是教育专家讲得好!

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What is " Prep" school?

Thanks.

a private secondary school

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